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Eluniel
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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I have been pondering this for a while now. What do you think is more needed on heroic DS: DPS of healing gain form DI?

Should resto druids keep DI or should it be given to DPS classes that can keep more close to 100% uptime; thus giving both target and warlock more dps (targets: boomkin/mage/shadow priest/etc… any up-to-date 4.3 datasheet about this?).

When I switched to druid on FL era my gear could not give 2005 haste, so I asked DI and I have been running with it so far. But resto druids _can_ get their 2005 haste from gear. Currently we are running raids with at least 1573 haste, with DI that will become 2005 haste. To be able to get 2005 haste from gear druid needs to favor haste pieces and that will ofc mean less mastery/crit. Less mastery/crit will naturally effect healing.

EJ wrote:
Resto druid haste breakpoints. Entries in this list assume a 5% haste buff from a Moonkin, Shadow Priest, or Shaman totem.
- 1573: 9th tick of Wild Growth and Effloresence with Dark Intent. If you have DI, you only have to make it to here instead of 2005 to get this nice bonus.
- 1602: 5th tick of Rejuvenation without 5% haste. If you're missing the haste buff, you really want to be at this point or higher.

- 2005: 9th tick of Wild Growth and Efflorescence. This point is very valuable, as these two spells make up a large portion of our healing.


What do you think?


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Tuishao
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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Get haste instead of relying on locks to boost your stats like every other person has too :D lol.

Everyone has to sacrifice stats to get haste cap, The extra dps it gives might counter the one extra tick of a heal, if the mob dies faster means less heals needed :S.


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Galadruin the Dwarf
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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On learning any fight there is a lot more pressure on the healers and tanks than the DPS.

Tanks can fight their own battles - so lets discuss progression as a healer.

I can say with certainty we are not going to face-roll the heroics and there is a learning curve through many wipes.

At first lots of people get things wrong - and at the start of progression this is when most avoidable damage gets taken as people learn where to be. Keeping the raid alive during these times to get longer on the boss is essential.

The longer you can get through an encounter or the more phases along - the better the understanding of the fight.

If we can see that healing isn't the issue on the boss - then we can look at the other factors - but prior to that I think the healers need as many buffs as they can get that will increase output.


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Jarakuel / Chris
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re: DI for whom?

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I completely agree with galadruin, although i no longer raid, how much dps can a dead dps do? Without that extra tick of a heal, the dps may die. The amount of times i've just missed out on getting a life saving heal on a dps or tank in a raid or dungeon, makes me feel so angry with myself.


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Tethane
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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Actually people, we are not just putting it on any person we are putting on the person that both benefits the raid and the caster, so forget the haste for one moment.

When you or the linked target gains a critical periodic damage or healing effect, the other gains increased periodic damage and healing lasting for 7 sec. You gain 3%, while the target gains 1%. Stacks up to 3 times. Dark Intent lasts for 30 min.

So the target actually have a dps priority for the warlock that casts them. If were not casting it on a resto druid it would be a spirest or boomkin, much else may actually work out a rdps loss.


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Galadruin the Dwarf
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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Well in that case it's probably best on a pally if I am reading World of Logs right

On SOD number of crits
Pob 1981
Henna 680
Ithra 766
Rasmus 619
Emo 136
Meheal 718

On MoD number of crits
Pob 2898
Henna 1561
Ithra 1845
Rasmus 2492
Emo 420
Meheal 3251

All these numbers of crits >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any dps regardless of class


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Necrall
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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SOD and MoD? I don't know those terms.


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Eluniel
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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You don't need to calculate it like that, you can actually check uptime from WoL ”buffs gained”, tho we do not have data about DI being on anything else than druid. Normally there is theory-crafting about this, but I haven't seen any for 4.3 (Jodie /other warlocks: is there up-to-date datasheet about this?). This is for 4.2: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/813759-Mechanics-Dark-Intent-%284.2%29

I would really like to see how palas are ranked as DI target and what your uptime would be, since your healing has changed from tank healer to AoE healer in 4.3.

Taken form yesterdays madness -> buffs gained:
Tethane: Dark Intent 99.0 %
Eluniel: Dark Intent 87.3 %

Jodie: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y4fccohtjx0lle5j/details/7/?s=2382&e=3205
me: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y4fccohtjx0lle5j/details/13/?s=2382&e=3205

Btw: when you look "buffs gained" you can press #-mark after buff and see graph about uptime. You can look multiple buffs simultaneously and how they affect your dps. ^_^


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Galadruin the Dwarf
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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Necrall wrote:
SOD and MoD? I don't know those terms.

Spine of Deathwing
Madness of Deathwing

Eluniel wrote:
I would really like to see how palas are ranked as DI target and what your uptime would be, since your healing has changed from tank healer to AoE healer in 4.3.


There is a big difference between 4.2 and 4.3 in healing - though any heavy AOE fight I think Shammans and Pallys are going to benefit the DPS more so from DI.
However looking at the WoL you posted and for Phenoma - ma naaaaah na naaa naaaaaaaah it seems pretty irellevant on the DPS side with 99% and 99.5% uptime

The only consideration therefore is which character will benefit more from the haste.

this may help people on who will benefit http://www.unyieldingvalor.com/calculator.php

It suggests i may get a 5th tick from HR with DI but I probably need to check the maths.

Updated my haste is as follows:
base: 14.49%
With Judge: 23.49%
With Raid: 28.49%

with trinket proc: 50.98%

with Divine Favour CD: 48.49

With DF, Trinket: 70.98%

HR haste points are: 16.62%, 50.04%, 83.32%
So DI not great for me at these figures


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Aselieos



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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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DI is far superior on classes with dots, so unless im missing something (and from everything i read on DI) it is useless on palas.

On the original question, HC's are going to be extremely dps intensive so eventually I think it will be best used on shadow priests/boomkins. However, for initial progression, resto druids would be adviseable until ppl learn how to avoid damage/progress through the encounter.

Would suggest checking the elitist jerks forum to see if there is an update on DI for 4.3 - I dont remember seeing anything but I can be wrong :-)
Aselieos



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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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For clarification: (link: http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t112939-affliction_cataclysm_4_3_release/#DoTs__Buff_and_Debuffs)



Dark Intent
First and foremost, you should gauge the needs of your group. When learning raid fights or playing with undergeared healers, they should always come first. When you hit enrage timers or wipe because the boss has a burn phase you didn't complete, you should consider applying it to DPS classes. I'll leave this up to you.

Healer Rankings:

1. Restoration Druid
2. Holy Priest (Raid Healing)
3. Resto Shammie
4. Holy Priest (Tank Healing)
5. Disc Priest
6. Holy Paladin (with glyph of long word)

DPS Rankings:

1. Shadow Priest
2. Fire Mage
3. Balance Druid
4. Ele Shaman
5. Frost Mage

Personal Rankings (Best for the lock)

1) Balance Druid (99% Uptime)
2) Shadow Priest (98% Uptime)
3) Surv Hunter (98% Uptime)
4) Feral Druid (95% Uptime)
5) Fire Mage (88% UPtime)

Would suggest reading the DI section on the link i provided above to understand better :p
Donvipra

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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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There is a post on MMO aswell with a data sheet for Dark Intent for 4.3:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1035467-Dark-Intent-%284.3%29
This has been made with a pretty recent version of Simulation Craft (Version 430, with the newest version being 432). I've checked these findings with the newest version and they add out, slight numeral changes but the top 7 will remain unchanged non the less.
Tuishao
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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Kind of a random thought I had, Im sure the warlocks know who to DI, lol Just a random thing that came into my head that this post is kinda pointless as im sure Jodie and the other locks research their class and know who best to DI?.

Is Henna scared she might Loose the DI buff? Awww Happy lol seems that way, but don't worry I think your safe, pretty sure one lock will use it on you.


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Donvipra

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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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After seeing the list on EJ and the one on MMO I've ran a simulation test of my own since the MMO one was made with BIS T13 Heroic gear and the EJ doesn't have their data spread for 4.3 anywhere on their site.
So I ran an simulation using actual data from the armory for bit more reliable numbers.
The following table was the outcome using the raiders from our last raid. Note these are only the DPS and a healer table is currently being made but the simulator is having problems assigning Dark Intent correctly and has to be done manually.

All fights are on a Patchwerk style boss and are recorded over a 450 second duration. I hope there is some usefull information to be gained from it and if other people run simulation feel free to check, verify and correct if there any errors (and my apologies if people logged out without their raiding gear and / or spec)

Player

Hievna
Phenoma
Pessimism
Cassor
Maiaral
Aselieøs
Sorien
Caleliá
Ragamuffin
Xeonaught
Dawnrazor
Gologar
Template
Wrift
Thamara
DPS without DI

43835
39664
33316
23370
40828
33674
40203
30324
39299
39864
35913
41182
37888
34974
24371
DPS With DI_Source:Tethane

44690
39587
34657
24076
41951
33652
41338
31822
40426
40512
36789
42386
38466
35888
24667
Raid DPS increase

855
-77
1341
706
1123
-22
1135
1498
1127
648
876
1204
578
914
296

Eluniel
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re: Dark intent targets and incoming hard modes

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I'm not scared Peter. ^_^ I'am just wondering/asking is it reasonable for me/other resto druids to ask&take DI on every raid or would it be better to give it to someone else. I have asked this from Jodie during FL, but this time I decided to ask it on forum due:
1. start of heroic modes will stress our dps/healing output
2. some suitable DI targets have appeared to raid frames and they may ask DI and wonder why that druid always gets it. XD
3. on DS gear geting 2005 haste is easier than on FL gear

After all, raiding is a team effort and hardmodes are the pinnacle of raiding that will test our dps/healing.

PS: If we decide to change DI target, please warn me beforehand so that I can get some haste-gear and do the needed reforges.
Edit: While writing this Donvipra posted his numbers. Wonderful work.


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